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Transcript of 'The Enemy Within' Norman Dodd interview by Dr. Stan Monteith circa 1980s on Radio Liberty






CIRCA 1980s on Radio Liberty

Typed/edited by Juan @ Teknosis


Part 1




This is Dr. Stan here on Radio Liberty.. coming at you from the hills of beautiful and picturesque Monterey Bay. I’m bringing you the story behind the story, the news behind the news.. hoping to convince you that reality is usually scoffed at and illusion is usually king.. but in the battle for the survival of western civilization it’s going to be reality and not illusion or delusion that’s going to determine just what the future will bring.


And so without further ado I want to get into a little background on a very interesting subject which I think is vitally important that every American understands about and that is the subject of America’s great tax exempt foundations.

Now it was back in 1950 when America had just completed the Second World War. We’d lost 100s of thousands of men, killed, and 100s of thousands of men crippled but America had won the war. We’d won the war to make the world free and to bring the Four Freedoms to the peoples of the world. But suddenly by 1950 people began to look around. Eastern Europe had gone communist, China had fallen to communism and the terrible trials and liquidation had already begun at that point in China and it was obvious that something was seriously wrong. How did this happen? Hadn’t we fought the war to bring freedom to the peoples of the world?

Well the Senate of the United States commissioned a Congressional Committee to look into the background of what had actually transpired at that time. What they found was basically this: that the Chinese Communists under Chiang Kai Sheck had essentially won the war in China. The Communists were in retreat into northern China and it was only going to be a matter of time before the nationalist Chinese government was victorious. Chiang Kai Sheck had already committed to forming a democratic form of government and now there was going to be an opportunity to bring freedom to China for the first time in 20 years. They’ve been in war for 20 years.

When the American State Department decided that that wasn’t what we wanted, basically the American State Department demanded that Chaing Kai Sheck form a coalition government with the Chinese Communists. Well Chiang Kai Sheck had actually been trained as a Communist in Moscow. He understood communism and he understood you couldn’t trust them and the last thing in the world he wanted was to have Communists in his government. And so he refused. At that point the American State Department put an arms embargo on China and basically Chiang Kai Sheck who had bought weapons and actually paid for them (they were in Okinawa of the Pacific Islands), the American State Department saw [to it] that he was unable to get the weapons he had already bought and purchased. His efforts to buy and purchase weapons anywhere else in the world were effectively blocked by the American State Department. The Congress of the United States voted 125 million dollars in weapons to be sent to Chiang Kai Sheck and the ships were kept in the harbor in San Francisco for a matter of many months, and actually when the weapons finally arrived in China and the rifles got to northern China, the rifles didn’t have any bolts in them and they were useless. Now many of the Chinese divisions were equipped with American weapons and once the supply of guns and ammunition were cut off they had nothing to fight with. Chiang Kai Sheck had a massive army but without weapons it was defeated by a small well-armed Chinese Communist force which simply ran south as the Chinese were in retreat because they had absolutely nothing to fight with. How would you like be a soldier on the battlefield without any ammunition, without any hand grenades, without any replacement if you lost your rifle?

And that’s exactly what happened. Well, of course, it really didn’t make sense. Basically it was pointed out and in the McCarron Committee Report, the Senate Committee headed by Senator Pat McCarren pointed out that the Chinese Communists were well-equipped, they had equipment that we had given them, given to the Russians, that American equipment given to the Russians the Russians turned over to the Chinese Communists and of course the massive amounts of armaments that the Japanese had surrendered to the Russians when the Russians moved into Manchuria. All of this was given to the Chinese Communists. They had no problems with military supplies. We actually, de facto, disarmed the Chinese Communist forces and as a result of that China fell to Communism. As a direct result of that, between 60 and 80 million human beings were systematically liquidated in China. Now when you use a figure like that it just isn’t real. We speak with horror of what happened in the extermination camps of Europe where 6 million Jews were executed but when was the last time you heard about the 60 to 80 million helpless Chinese civilians who were just liquidated to create a state of terror to allow the consolidation of power by the Chinese Communist government that America brought to be?

Well anyway after the Senate Committee Reports, and incidentally, for those of you who are out there who are skeptical and would like to see a copy of the summary of this report, you send a self-addressed stamped envelope to Post Office Box 13 in Santa Cruz 95063, we’ll Xerox off a copy of the two pages of the summary of the McCarron Committee Report, which incidentally nobody ever read because this material was effectively suppressed by the controlled media, even back in 1950 and 1951 in America. So if you’d like to get a copy to document, to find out if this is really true, why send us a self-addressed stamped envelope to Post Office Box 13 in Santa Cruz 95063. And so it was after the McCarron Committee Report was submitted people began to read it and they found out that there was an organization in the United States which had been specifically designed to be used as a propaganda tool for the Communists, it had a thrust and basically it talked about the corruption within the Chinese Communists and then it talked about Mao and Zhou Enlai as if they were somehow the Abraham Lincoln, the George Washington of China. They weren’t really communist, they were simply agrarian reformers and by a carefully coordinated propaganda campaign they were able to convince many people in the United States that Chinese Communists were not really communist at all, just as a decade later they were able to convince the American people that Fidel Castro wasn’t really a communist, he was the Abraham Lincoln of the Sierra Maestra.

Well basically the interesting thing about The Institute of Pacific Relations was that as they began to look into its background, it had been financed by, of all things, the Rockefeller Foundation. The Rockefeller Foundation actually financing a subversive organization? Well, when this information came out the members of the Congress and the Senate demanded another investigation that was to investigate the great tax-exempt foundations to determine what their real agenda was, did they have some hidden or some subversive agenda? Well of course the 82nd Congress appointed a committee that came to be known as the Cox Committee. It was headed by Congressman E. E. Cox of Georgia and its purpose was to investigate the great tax-exempt foundations.

Now on that committee was a Republican, his name was B. Carrol Reece, Congressman Reece of Tennessee. Well of course, as so often happens, the media immediately began attacking this committee, and then, maybe it had just been a coincidence but Congressman Cox suddenly died, and that of course was the end of the committee. Well in 1953 the 83rd Congress convened, this was a Republican congress, and they then called for the introduction, for the authorization of another Congressional Committee. This came to be known as the Reece Committee, headed by Congressman B. Carrol Reece, and its specific purpose was to investigate the great tax-exempt foundations. Well in the foreword to a book written about this committee, Congressman Reece said this: “But it was the function of our investigation to find out to what extent if any are the funds of the large foundations aiding and abetting Marxist tendencies in the United States and weakening the love which every American should have for his way of life.” And then he goes on to say: “So we set out to find the answers. We wanted to explore the problems of foundations by examining their actions, not their statements for the public. We felt that there are involved in the concepts under which foundations operate and grew in the United States, certain inherent dangers to the public welfare. We were not blind to the undoubted merits of the contributions of the numerous tax-exempt foundations to worthwhile causes but it was our intention to find out the factual basis for preserving their constructive function and at the same time for supplying guidance for future legislation and administrative action against the use of foundation power for political ends. The story of that adventure of what we found, and of the harassment to which we were subjected, is included in this book by Rene Wormser, Foundations: Their Power and Influence.”

Well let me tell you what happened to this committee. First of all, tremendous pressure was brought to bear on individual members of Congress who were on the committee to force them to stop the investigation. Pressure was brought to bear on other members of Congress to cut off appropriations for this investigation. The committee was routinely attacked by the New York Times and the Washington Post Tribune and by all the major conservative and liberal media in America. Amazingly a Congressman named Wayne Hayes was appointed. Wayne Hayes came from Indiana and his specific function on the committee was to disrupt its hearings. In fact, the story is told in the book, and everything I’m telling you can be found, almost, in this book entitled Foundations: Their Power and Influence, which I strongly recommend to you. But Congressman Wayne Hayes during one 185 minute period, interrupted the hearings 235 times. Why? Because he wanted to disrupt the hearings. They did not want the hearings to take place.

Basically, of course, as the committee proceeded with its investigation under the direction of Congressman B. Carrol Reece, under the direction of the chief counsel, Rene Wormser, and under the guidance of the director of research, a man by the name Norman Dodd, who you are going to hear from later in this tape, they began to uncover incredible things, and of course one of the first things was that the great foundations were being used to change America. They were being used to change us from a free society into a socialist society, and to a fascist society. They were being used to change America from a sovereign nation into simply one more state in a new world order, a new world government. They talk on page 204 of the book about the investigations into what the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace had done.

Basically the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace had been endowed specifically to bring about world peace. How do you bring about world peace? Well they decided they had a great idea, they’d bring about war, and on page 204 of the book they tell about how Nicholas Murray Butler, who was the longtime president of Columbia University, Republican candidate for the Presidency at one time, he was well rewarded for his loyalty to the people who worked behind the scenes, manipulating the great foundations, but Nicholas Murray Butler was the President of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

And here is what the book tells you: When Andrew Carnegie established the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, he gave the management of this fund a difficult task—how were they to go about promoting peace? They seemed to have not a great theory or idea until Dr. Nicholas Murray Butler, into whose hands Mr. Carnegie put the initial direction of the fund, got excited about the perils of the allies in World War I and decided that the best way to establish peace was to help get the United States into the war. Let me repeat that. He decided that the best way to establish peace was to help to get the United States into the war, and to this end he began to use the endowment funds. And that’s what they did. They used the endowment funds to propagandize the American people to get involved in a war that wasn’t our business at all.

And working along with the JP Morgan banking interests, and Thomas Lamont and others working behind the scenes, they created a propaganda campaign in America designed for one and only one purpose and that was to bring America into World War I where we suffered 126,000 American boys killed, 237,000 injured, many of them carrying the pain of their wounds to their very graves. And what did we accomplish? Why we were going to get the League of Nations. We were going to get world government. We were going to bring about world peace.

And of course the League of Nations failed, and so once it had failed they had to begin working for another war because wars are a means by which societies change. Now if that sounds like a ridiculous statement I want you to listen to this tape very carefully because you’re going to hear in the second half of the tape and interview with Norman Dodd, the Director of Research for this Congressional committee, who had the unique opportunity of being allowed to send one of his employees to go through the minutes of the Carnegie Endowment for Peace, and of course he found what the employee, her name was Katherine Casey as I remember, what she found when going through the minutes of the [board] was that in 1908, the members of the board of the Carnegie Endowment were sitting around saying how can we change the world? Is there any better way to change the world than to war? But how will we get a war going? And they spent many, many many months deciding how to get a war going. And then of course after the war was going and America was involved in a war and our boys were dying, they sat around in the minutes, and this is all recorded in the minutes, congratulating one another, and saying gee we did a great job, because we’re already beginning to change society.

Incredible, well this is the sort of thing you’re not going to hear elsewhere but you’re going to hear a taped interview which I did with Mr. Norman Dodd in 1980 before he died. I did it because I knew this story was so vitally important, and someday the time would come when the American people had to learn the truth. We have working within our society a cancer, a cancer that has an objective and goal, and that objective and goal is to destroy America as we’ve known it. Well, let me tell you what the great foundations have done with their money. They decided that they were going to change the educational system. They began to finance John Dewey and progressive education. And of course that was simply a process of beginning to take away phonics out of the schools to dumb down our children so that they would be quite willing to go along with the new, wonderful, socialist society that was planned. They went to the great universities, they bribed the universities to put their people into key positions, the chairs of history, political science and economics, always pushing the socialist or collectivist agenda. They financed the writing of textbooks, always slanted to the left. They financed the publication of research books, always slanted to the left. They financed such things as the Encyclopedia of Social Studies. The whole story is in Foundations: Their Power and Influence which is probably one of the three or four most important books ever written, actively suppressed and censored in America for many years and available only through Radio Liberty.

So basically what transpired was that when they financed the writing of the Encyclopedia of Social Studies, they had a socialist write the section on socialism. Well you would think that it would be printed as if he would glorify socialism wouldn’t you? And then they had a communist write the section on communism. Well of course he would be very prejudice towards making it very apparent that communism was the best sort. But when it came to writing the section on capitalism and free enterprise they also had a communist write that. And little wonder then that the successive generations in our universities have been slanted to the left. They set out to reward those professors who would prostitute themselves and teach the liberal line, would write articles professing the liberal line. They actually bribed the academics, many of whom were underpaid. They felt that the ruling elite should really control what was going on. And so it wasn’t very hard to appeal to the ego of many college professors and to get them to go along with a line of preaching collectivism.

Now you must understand that these ideas of centralization of power with government have never been aimed at really helping the underclass, although that’s how you sell it to the people. It has really been aimed at enslaving the underclass and bringing them under government control. Now basically what socialism is really all about, stripped of all of its idealism—a sincere, benevolent, idealistic theory—socialism is force. I think de Tocqueville said it best speaking to the French assembly many years ago, he said that democracy and socialism have only one thing in common, that is a word and that word is equality. But democracy creates equality by freedom and by liberty whereas socialism creates equality by regulation and regimentation and so forth. So that’s what’s it’s really all about.

Socialism is basically a means by which a massive bureaucracy controls everything and those who control the bureaucracy control the population. Socialism is the antithesis to freedom and that is what the great tax-exempt foundations have been financing for almost a century in America. And the fact that you’ve not heard this before shows the degree of control that today exists over what the American people think. Who do you think it is today who’s financing the environmental movement in America, why the great tax-exempt foundations, who is it do you think who is financing the gay and lesbian movement, that money that’s not of course wrung out of the gays and lesbians, appealing to their fears and telling them the Christians and heterosexuals hate them. Why, if you have any question about that, you can send us a self-addressed stamped envelope and we’ll send you a copy of an article that came out in the New York Times pointing out that on our college campuses across America you have all these crazy courses which don’t prepare people for life, they prepare them for a life of perversion, the gay and lesbian studies, the women’s studies, which are basically lesbian studies, the transgender studies, who do you think is financing that, why the Carnegie Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Ford Foundation. Who do you think it is funding the abortion movement, the money that doesn’t come out of the public coffers, why it’s in large part America’s great tax-exempt foundations. In fact who do you think is funding much of the New Age activity, the occultic, spiritual movement which is sweeping America? Well Barbara Marks Hubbard’s latest book going into the rewriting of the bible was financed by the Lawrence Rockefeller Foundation.

So you must understand what these great tax-exempt foundations are doing, they have an objective and goal. Now, there is interlock between the great foundations and America’s State Department. Let’s take you back to the period immediately after the Second World War, that period between 1945 and about 1949, January of 1949 when China was lost to freedom. Who was working in the State Department? Well there’s a man, his name is Dean Rusk and he was a member of the Board of Trustees of the Rockefeller Foundation, a member the Institute of Pacific Relations and the Undersecretary of State in charge of substantive affairs when we were betraying China to the Communists. And then about 1949, 1950 he became the Undersecretary of State in charge of Far Eastern Affairs, where he could then betray the American boys we sent to Korea to fight in a no-win United Nations directed war, a war we never should have been in if we didn’t intend to win.

In fact we could talk sometime about how statements made by the American Secretary of State actually invited the North Vietnamese to attack South Vietnam, assuring them that if they did attack we would not come to South Vietnam’s aid, and of course North Koreans did what we wanted and now we had a war going. Well, Dean Rusk was the Undersecretary of State in charge of Far Eastern Affairs at the time when we were betraying our forces and the South Koreans. Well then in 1952 Dwight D Eisenhower was elected to the presidency, and what happened to Dean Rusk? Why he went to work fulltime for the Rockefeller Foundation as President of the Rockefeller Foundation. And from 1952 until 1960 Dean Rusk remained President of the Rockefeller Foundation. Then in 1960 Dean Rusk returned to the American State Department, now as the American Secretary of State under John Fitzgerald Kennedy, a position he held until 1968 when Richard Nixon was elected, when we supposedly changed direction in Washington, D.C. because now the Republicans were in.

And of course it was during that time when we fought a no-win war. Exactly the same people, forces, were in power in Washington, D.C., between 1960 and 1968, [that] had been there between 1949 and 1953, 1954, the no-win war in Korea. Well, Dean Rusk then of course was instrumental in laying out the policies which prevented our boys from winning in South Vietnam. We were never allowed to hit any of the major targets, we literally betrayed South Vietnam to communism, we executed their leaders, we undermined the fabric of their society. We actually had a program of assassination known as the Phoenix Program where the American government paid for ears. You brought in an ear of somebody who was supposedly an enemy of the society, an enemy of the state, an enemy of America, you got well paid for an ear. I think we collected about 60,000 ears. You ever hear of the Phoenix Program? I bet you won’t either. That’s another story and we can talk about that some evening when we talk about the background of Vietnam. Well, anyway in 1968 Dean Rusk left the State Department and where do you think he went. Why he went back to the Rockefeller Foundation to become its president once again. You see, those people who do the service and work for the great foundations are well-rewarded, whether they’re actually working for the foundations or whether they are in the American State Department.

Another case in point, probably the other major figure in our involvement in South Vietnam was a man named McGeorge Bundy, and of course his brother was married to Dean Acheson’s daughter. Dean Acheson had been Secretary of State at the time we betrayed China and South Korea. McGeorge Bundy was the Chairman of the National Security Council between 1960 and about 1966, I think that’s when he left the government. And where do you think he went to work? He became President of the Ford Foundation. So you see there’s continuing interlock between the great foundations and America’s foreign policy at the American State Department. It really doesn’t matter whether you have the Democrats in power, whether you have the Republicans in power, the foundations and their interlock with the Council on Foreign Relations always persists.

Now, if you doubt very much that there is such an interlock, I’d like to suggest that you go not to a right-winger like Barry Goldwater, who will tell you that in his book No Apologies, but go to Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., certainly no one that will ever accuse Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. of being a patriot, or being a conservative, but in his book called A Thousand Days, the story of JFK in the Whitehouse, he will tell you quite clearly, you can index this on the Council of Foreign Relations in the book, he will tell you that there is an Establishment in America, it’s made up of people of great wealth and it ties in to the financial and legal establishment in New York. It is known as the American Establishment. It’s vehicles are the Carnegie Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Ford Foundation and the Council on Foreign Relations and it’s media outlets are the New York Times and Foreign Affairs magazine. I’m quoting almost verbatim from Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. from A Thousand Days, you can get it at the library, it’s a classic book.

There really is a secret Establishment out there. It does have an agenda, and if you’ll read the book Foundations: Their Power and Influence, you’ll find out how they have undermined every aspect of life, how it was the Rockefeller Foundation that financed the Kinsey Report, a terribly flawed pseudo-scientific study aimed at changing the sexual mores of our society, and basically, of course, the Kinsey Report then acted as the impetus for Hugh Heffner and others to say, well look, 10% of the population is homosexual, everybody is being promiscuous, why not just go ahead and do it, look at what you’re missing out on, bestiality is really just simply a deviation of normal [?], and pedophilia, well, you know, there’s nothing really wrong with it; as far as child molestation, the only real problem is the parents get so upset about it, but think of the wonderful experience it is for the child as he begins to realize his sexuality. And these were the ideas that were being put forward with your tax-exempt dollars in the Kinsey Report, financed by the Rockefeller Foundation. Well you need to get ahold of the book Foundations: Their Power and Influence, but then in just a couple of minutes you’re going to hear this wonderful interview that comes from the past.

Now Norman Dodd was a fascinating gentleman, he was kind enough, without ever having met me, to come to Greenville, South Carolina, where we did a filmed interview with him in 1980 and I spent several evenings with him, I subsequently went to his home in Virginia and we talked for many hours. Norman Dodd was an old-line patriot, he loved America, he loved everything America stood for, he loved our freedom, and he had had that unique opportunity in 1953 and 1954 to be the Director of Research for the Reece Committee, and in that position he had an opportunity to meet Rowan Gaither, the head of the Ford Foundation, and the head of the Ford Foundation at one point said Mr. Dodd why are you investigating the Ford Foundation, why does Congress want to investigate the Ford Foundation? And before Mr. Dodd could answer that question Rowan Gaither said well let me tell you what our real purpose is. We are operating under Presidential Directives, and we’re using our grant-making power to so alter the life in the United States that one day we can be peacefully merged with the Soviet Union.

Incredible? Not incredible at all. I want you to hear the story from Norman Dodd’s own lips. Now, he told the story many times across America but it never was recorded, it never was filmed, and we did the first filmed interview ever done with him, subsequently our good friend Ed Griffin who’s written that wonderful book The Creature from Jekyll Island, went and actually did another filmed interview which he’s been selling for a number of years and hopefully one day we’ll have our video presentation ready. But it’s vitally important that you hear what Mr. Dodd said.

Now, Norman Dodd died in the mid-1980s, he had copies of the Reece Committee Report which were all systematically bought up, and most of them have been destroyed. We have been trying to get copies of that report. You know, you can’t find one in California, you can’t find one in the Western United States, in fact at East Tennessee State University where the papers of Congressman B. Carroll Reece are kept, there’s no copy of the Reece Committee Report (his most important work). What happened? Why the copies of the Reece Committee Report were simply bought up and destroyed.

We have a taped interview with a Mr. Robert Goldsborough, who worked for a different congressional committee, but he was fascinated by this subject. He was also a friend Norman Dodd’s, and in a taped interview which we have, which incidentally is available from Radio Liberty, Mr. Goldsborough tells how he had a copy of both the Cox and Reece Committee Reports and back in 1958 or so, somebody came to a complete stranger and said I understand you have copies of those reports, I want to buy them, I’ll give you $2,000, well back in those days $2,000 was a lot of money, but Goldsborough said they’re not for sale, and the stranger said I want those reports, you name your price. And that’s what really happened across America. Most of the copies of those reports were simply bought up and are no longer available anywhere in America. Mr. Goldsborough tells me he knows of only three copies of those reports in existence in America today. There is one back at the Library of Congress, I’ve been unable to access it. But, almost as good as the Reece Committee Report itself is the book Foundations: Their Power and Influence. And so it is that this evening we are going to give you that unique opportunity to listen to Mr. Normal Dodd as he gives you the background of his wealth of information actually working as the Chief Investigator for the Reece Committee. And so, in just a moment, Mr. Norman Dodd…


Part 2


Dr. Monteith (DM): Mr. Dodd, what did you find out was the stated objective and goals of the great American foundations?


Norman Dodd (ND): We found out, Dr., that these foundations had as their objective the orientation of the people of this country to the idea of collectivism, and thereby nullifying for good and all of the commitment of the country to individualism which was the feature of the country at the beginning.


DM: Now how did they go about doing this?


ND: Well primarily they did it, Dr., by securing control of what is known as the money supply and the people of this country.


DM: You’re speaking of the money supply that was going into education.


ND: Well it’s the money supply of the people of the country as-a-whole.


DM: And how did they do this?


ND: They did this by working out a system of banking which was foreign in its concept but it enabled debt to be what we call monetized, transformed into bank deposits.


DM: Now how did they specifically set out to influence education in America?


ND: By having at their disposal unlimited quantities of this newly created money and being able to reward the personalities who are active in the world of education, administratively as well as academically.


DM: Were they able to influence the textbooks or the teachers?


ND: Yes, they were. They were able to see that textbooks were almost produced by an order, and assuring the publishers of textbooks of the funds necessary to make publications of those books profitable.


DM: Now, have you personally had contact with some of the directors of these great foundations.


ND: Yes I have.


DM: Could you tell us about it.


ND: Well one instance I’ll use. I’ll use a couple of instances as illustrations. One instance had to do with my responding to an invitation from the President of the Ford Foundation who asked me if when I was next in New York would I stop in their office and have a visit, which I did and on arrival, after amenities, Mr. Gaither who was the then president said: Mr. Dodd we invited you to come and see us this morning hoping that you would, off the record, tell us why the congress was interested in operations of foundations such as ours. And before I could think of how I could reply to him he volunteered the following. He said Mr. Dodd, those of us here at the policy-making level have all had experience either with the OSS or the European Economic Administration in operating under directives, the origin of which was the White House. We today operate under just such directives. Would you like to know what the substance of these directives is? And I said, Yes, Mr. Gaither, I’d like very much to know, whereupon he said to me, the substance of the directives under which we operate is that we shall use our grant-making power so to alter life in the United States that we can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union. Well, figuratively I nearly fell off the chair, but I did remark to him, Mr. Gaither in the light of what you’ve just told me many of your grants make sense, I can understand them, but I do not think that you’re entitled to withhold this information from the people of this country to whom you are beholden for your tax exemption, so why don’t you tell them what you’ve told me? And his answer was Mr. Dodd we wouldn’t think of doing that. So I said well Mr. Gaither I’ll answer your first question, you forced the Congress of the United States to spend 150,000 dollars to find out what you’ve just told me.


DM: And so they’ve been pushing socialism in America ever since.


ND: Well, then, in the light of that, of course, you see conditions develop and of course you can then ? [transciber's note: word is indiscerible] and ascribe the developments of these conditions on the events that accompany to this policy because it’s only in the light of that policy that these events and effects make any sense. And this is their problem, Dr., they cannot avoid having effects result from the grants that they make. They cannot avoid it, therefore those in this country who would be concerned with what are they up to merely has to look at the effects and work back and compare the effects of a grant with the explanation of the grant in the first place. I mean, I’ll just use as an instance, to clarify the matter. You will remember there was a time when the Federal Reserve system was installed in this country by the Congress, in other words it was legalized, and it had been preceded by a long period of years and a struggle to get the Federal Reserve approved. Finally it was approved and the argument that swung the approval in that direction was that if the system is installed the result will be the elimination of bank failures. And as much as there had been in those days a plethora of bank failures this was held up as a very beneficial development, practice, since what we call fractional reserve central banking. But nobody goes back, this was in 1912, nobody goes back to 1930 when every bank in the United States was closed, every bank. There wasn’t a solvent bank in the United States. That, you see, was proof that the original purpose was in no sense to eliminate bank failures, and this discrepancy and these contrasts and these contradictions are the telltale part that those who have imposed these practices on us as a people are scared to death that it’s going to be picked up and stressed and then taught and so forth and so on, but it isn’t.


DM: No, and the mass media doesn’t ever talk about it.


ND: And no, neither does the educational world. This is what will meet the challenge. One accredited educational institution with trustees who openly declare that we notice this, we notice the inconsistency, the contradictions and we are setting forth an effort to account for them. And that in my opinion would explode the whole network. And they have told me that this is what they’re scared to death [of]. Somebody is going to pick up the string.


DM: Mr. Dodd, what do you think is the basic crux of this whole problem?


ND: Well, Dr., I feel that the problem itself originates with that aspect of human life which condemns men collectively to experience what is known as the fall of man, and that subsequently Christ became into the world with the knowledge that the individual could confront this condition and not become victimized by it. But that entailed the individual emulating Christ, who through the temptations in the wilderness was confronted by the satanic, listen to what the satanic had to offer and say no, and then add, and I know you to be Satan, and Satan went away. That to me is the clue to how to nullify this influence which has had humanity in its grip for centuries. Well, of course what it means is that one has to accept the realism of the inclusion of evil, and that in turn challenges the world of education to equip the student with the knowledge necessary to recognize evil in action within the sphere of his own experiences and refuse to be part of it. Then this influence which has been behind the creation of this network can’t operate. It cannot operate in the light, and admittedly it, you know, says that it acknowledges that, so that those who are a part of it knowingly are scared to death that somebody, at some point as they put it, they’re going to pick up the end of a string and little by little follow it to the end, and as they put it to me, when that happens we’re through.


DM: Now did you or any member of your staff ever have the opportunity of going through the records of any of the great foundations?


ND: Well we had one remarkable instance of that kind, again by invitation. This invitation came from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and was in response to a letter that I had written to the endowment asking certain questions seeking certain information, and this invitation was issued to me over the telephone to come to their office in New York when I was next there. This I did, and on arrival found myself in the presence of Dr. Joseph Johnson, the president, two vice-presidents and their own counsel, a partner of Sullivan and Cromwell, and after amenities Dr. Johnson said Mr. Dodd we’ve received your letter and we can answer all these questions but it will be a great deal of trouble because with the approval by the Senate, a ratification of the United Nations Treaty, we felt our job was done, so we took all our records from the beginning of this endowment up to that 1945 and sent them to the warehouse and then we concentrated on just using our funds to build this new building across the street from the United Nations, which would provide all the various organizations that would follow the United Nations activities with a place to meet but we have a counter suggestion and that is, Mr. Dodd, if you can spare a member of your staff for two weeks and send them to New York, we will provide that member with a room in the library, our library, and the minute books of this endowment since its inception, and we think whatever you want to find out, you can find out through that source. Well, my first reaction was these men had lost their mind because I had a pretty good idea of what those minute books might show up, but as I thought about it I realized that most of them were new in their position and my guess was none of them had ever read the minutes themselves, which would be of course quite a task to cover 50 years of minutes, you know reading. I accepted this invitation and selected a member of my staff, Ms. Katherine Casey, who was a practicing Washington lawyer but who was on my staff to see to it that I and the conduct and work of the staff did not break any official rules in Washington. Katherine was also unsympathetic to the investigation. Her attitude was what could possibly be wrong with foundations, they do so much good. Well I went out of my way not to prejudice her, but I did say Katherine, when you get to New York you’ll find that you can’t possibly cover 50 years of minutes in two weeks so you’ll have to do what we call spot reading and I blocked out certain periods for her to concentrate on. And when she returned to Washington her eyes were figuratively as big around as saucers and she brought back to me the following on Dictaphone belts. We’re back in 1908 and the trustees meet and they raise this question among themselves, namely, is there any means beside war known to man more capable, assuming you want to alter the life of an entire people..


DM: Now these are the Trustees of the Carnegie Foundation.


ND: That’s right. And they discuss this question in a very learned fashion for approximately a year and come up with the conclusion that war is the most effective means known to man, assuming you wish to alter the life of an entire people. So then they bring up a second question, namely, how do we involve the United States in a war, and I doubt if in 1909 there was any subject more removed from the minds of us as a people than our involvement in a war. There were shows going on in the Balkans and most of the people of this country hardly knew where the Balkans were, and they conclude that they must control the diplomatic machinery of the United States, and that raises question number three, namely how do we secure that control. And the answer comes up we must control the State Department and from that time on their activities were centered on securing control of the State Department. Now as a means to that end the endowment founded an instrumentality called the Council for Learned Societies and that council was assigned the task of passing on every high official appointment to the State Department before the appointment was confirmed. At that point this finding linked up with what we had already suspected but nevertheless there was confirmation of it. Well this happened and then pretty soon the country was in a war, which came to be known, of course, as World War I, and this group of trustees at one point congratulated themselves on the wisdom of their original decision because, as they put it, war has demonstrated a power to alter the life of the people of this country already. And then their interest centered on seeing to it that we as a people did not revert to our customs and our practices which prevailed prior to the outbreak of World War I. And they decided after the war was over that that meant we had to control education in the United States. And so they realized that this was a very prodigious task. So they approached the Rockefeller Foundation and made the suggestion that the Rockefeller Foundation take on half the problem and they retain the other half - they divided it between those subjects which were domestic in their significance and those which were international. And they, together, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Endowment, decided that the crux of the matter lay in their ability to alter the teaching of American History in this country. So they approached then, three of most prominent historians with that suggestion and they were turned down flat, so then they decided they’d have to build their own stable of historians, and so they then approached the Guggenheim Foundation which specialized in awarding fellowships and said figuratively, when we find a likely young man who’s headed to be a teacher of American History will you grant him, on our say so, a fellowship, and the answer was yes we will. So they gradually assembled 20. And they took these 20 to England, London, and there they briefed them to what was expected of them and that became the nucleus of the American Historical Association to which ultimately the endowment made a grant of 400,000 dollars for a study to be made which would conclude what the future of this country was to be, and at the end of 1932 this study comes out in seven volumes, the last volume of which was a summary of the other six, and it ended on the note that the future of this country belongs to collectivism administered with characteristic American efficiency and that became the, I’m using todays language, and that became the guidelines for higher education in this country, and then coincidentally with that then books began to appear, all of which were detrimental to our vision of our own patriots who had signed the Declaration of Independence and they were downgrading these men. Witness the last most recent book on Jefferson that had to do with his having enjoyed a colored mistress and things like that... no reason to write that sort of thing.


DM: You know, were many of these books that have come out through the years funded, financed, subsidized by the great foundations?


AD: Through the medium of their support of certain publishing companies, yes.


DM: Did the mass media in the 1950s adequately cover the findings of the Reese Committee?


AD: Oh no, no.


DM: Was there any effort?


AD: Most reaction through that media were aimed at criticism of me as a personality. That and let it go at that.



The Dodd Report


January 13, 2014 in Current Affairs | Permalink