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You Can Beat The Credit Card Debt Collectors / Shout Out To Hanavee @ Hubpages

See: http://hanavee.hubpages.com/hub/You-Can-Beat-Credit-Card-Debt-Collectors

In addition to new and important relevant posts therein:

Kevin 13 days ago

This was an amazingly good and informative article. I've helped people beat debt collectors for years. They are my favorite prey to go after. Original creditors can be dispatched without too much difficulty either when you know how the game is played. You spoke on it briefly but I think you missed the significance. The original creditor usually has insurance on your credit card which you pay on monthly which is built into your normal credit card payment. If you look at the fine print of your contract you will find reference to it. If you fail to pay o your card for 90 days the insurance will pay. The debt will have been satisfied. The only entity that has the right to sue you then would be the insurance company but they never do. The insurance company would have the right of subrogation (very important term). A debt collector cannot have the right of subrogation because they are "a mere volunteer" to the situation. They had no loss. They intervened without your asking or consent. Now we are looking at insurance fraud by the original creditor because they got paid by the insurance company and sold a paid debt to a 3rd party. If they charged it off it means they wrote it off on their tax returns and received a tax credit so they got paid twice and then sold the debt. This would be insurance fraud and tax fraud. I would report to your state tax commissioner, state attorney general, and the IRS. You can get this info in pretrial discovery from the original creditor in production of documents or by using statement of admissions to plaintiff or special interrogatories to plaintiff. Once you hit them with that they get very very nervous. You usually can only make a limited number of statements of admissions or interrogatories. Look up discovery rules of your court (probably around 35). The entire financial system is built on lies your power is knowing what they need to hide to keep it going. When you drag it into the light they run screaming.

Look up on google: 73 American Jurisprudence 2nd Edition section 93 subrogation.

"Subrogation will not be allowed to a third person who without any obligation to do so pays an indebtedness and this rule is fully applicable to payments of an indebtedness secured by a mortgage." (for debt collectors)

also see title 15 usc 1691 I (federal debt collectors protection act) which says "nothing in this title (fdcpa) shall be construed to authorize the bringing of legal action by debt collectors."

When a debt collector misrepresents that it is a subrogee (has the right of subrogation like an insurance company) it is actionable (see federal case Gearing v Check Brokerage Corp 233 F 3d 469 7th Circuit). That means you can countersue them when they bring you to court.

Kevin 13 days ago

Also look up uniform commercial code UCC3-305 A-1(iii) which says you can refuse to pay on an instrument (bill) if fraud. The UCC code has a state statute that says the same thing in every state. Always use the state code when going to court. Judges like to pretend ucc code does not apply if you don't say the state code. Use this link for ucc code locator for your state statuteshttp://www.law.cornell.edu/uniform/ucc


Hanavee 41 hours ago from PennsylvaniaHub Author


Send them a letter requesting validation of the debt. If you study the blog here, you will see that the best form for that letter has been posted enough times, you'll have no trouble figuring which one it is. Once they receive your letter (sent certified mail-return receipt requested), they have to cease all collection activities until such time as they have verified the debt properly. I would also add in that request a notice that you would like them to show that the original creditor has not received an insurance payoff (which is common practice), because, if the original creditor took an insurance payoff, or a tax credit, then pursuit of this debt by the collection company constitutes fraud. Tell them that you would like them to show that they have the "right of subrogation of the debt." That should really rattle their nerves.



Hanavee 3 weeks ago from PennsylvaniaHub Author


I will post here again, then I will try another route for you. Basically, what I wrote is to do your research and have a good outline to follow in court for your defense, since I don't think they really seem to have a case. But most of all, send them a request worded like this:

Since it is common business practice for credit card companies to write off bad debts and to, thereupon, receive either an insurance payoff or a tax credit, in such cases, the pursuit of any such debt thus paid off is illegal unless the entity pursuing same debt has right of subrogation of the debt. Kindly submit any and all necessary proofs that you may have which demonstrate your right of subrogation of the debt that you allege I owe.

Send that to them via certified mail, return receipt requested, and bring this material up in court before the judge.



Marlene 3 weeks ago


Thought you would enjoy knowing about the success I just had with a JDB.

Last September I got a notice from Midland about an old debt that was already past SOL when they bought it, so I sent them the usual c&d, sol letter and added your favorite, Scienti et violenti non fit injuria clause. Plus, a debt validation request letter, and threw in your other favorite, do they have right of subrogation of this alleged debt. Gave them 30 days to validate, or remove debt from my credit report.

Guess what? It worked!! Today I got a letter from Midland saying they will no longer be collecting on that debt and are closing it so I"m no longer financially obligated, and they will instruct all 3 credit reporting agencies to delete all info regarding alleged account from my credit report.


Thank you Brian for your wise words of help. And, for anyone that is dealing with these blood-suckers, never, never give up. Study and learn from Brian and all that contribute to this forum.

Happy dance!!!



Also some other big news today:

Today the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) took action against the nation’s two largest debt buyers and collectors for using deceptive tactics to collect bad debts. The Bureau found that Encore Capital Group and Portfolio Recovery Associates bought debts that were potentially inaccurate, lacking documentation, or unenforceable. Without verifying the debt, the companies collected payments by pressuring consumers with false statements and churning out lawsuits using robo-signed court documents. The CFPB has ordered the companies to overhaul their debt collection and litigation practices and to stop reselling debts to third parties. Encore must pay up to $42 million in consumer refunds and a $10 million penalty, and stop collection on over $125 million worth of debts. Portfolio Recovery Associates must pay $19 million in consumer refunds and an $8 million penalty, and stop collecting on over $3 million worth of debts.

“Encore and Portfolio Recovery Associates threatened and deceived consumers to collect on debts they should have known were inaccurate or had other problems,” said CFPB Director Richard Cordray. “Now, the two biggest debt buyers in the market must refund millions and overhaul their practices. We will continue to take action to protect consumers from illegal and obnoxious debt collection practices.”

The CFPB specifically found that Encore Capital and Portfolio Recovery Associates –

Bought debts that they knew or should have known were inaccurate or were outside the statute of limitations.

Bought debts that where they knew or should have known that the underlying documents/records were inaccurate.

Made misrepresentations to consumers such as that their account had been reviewed by an attorney, that a lawsuit was imminent, and misled some consumers into agreeing auto-dialed calls to their cellphones.

Filed lawsuits that they had no intention to prove the debt was valid if consumers contested it.

Filed misleading affidavits in their lawsuits against consumers.

Mislead consumers and courts by stating that an undisputed debt is presumed to be valid under debt collection laws when in fact the federal laws governing debt collection state no such thing.

As a penalty the CFPB has ordered Encore Capital (and subsidiaries Midland Funding and Asset Acceptance) and Portfolio Recovery Associates to pay penalties and offer refunds to consumers totaling $82 million dollars. Further, the CFPB has ordered Encore and Portfolio to –

Stop collection on debts that it cannot substantiate.

Review original account-level documents verifying a debt before seeking to collect on it.

Not file a lawsuit unless they have specific documents and information showing that the debt is accurate and enforceable.

Not use affidavits to collect debts unless the statements contained within the affidavits specifically and accurately describe the signer’s own personal knowledge of the facts and the documents referenced in the affidavit are attached.

Ref: http://www.consumerfinance.gov/newsroom/cfpb-takes...


Here are the court orders that are consent orders for the following:

For Encore Capital Group, Inc., Midland Funding, LLC, Midland Credit Management, Inc. and Asset Acceptance Capital Corp.:

Consent Order Encore Capital Group, Inc., Midland Funding, LLC, Midland Credit Management, Inc. and Asset A...

For Portfolio Recorvery:

Consent Order Portfolio Recovery Associates Llc


Hope this helps any of you being sued by these criminals

July 20, 2014 in Current Affairs | Permalink